FERGAL HORGAN INTERVIEW: ‘The way it is going you won’t have referees for matches’

Fergal, you made the decision to go. Is it a hard call after giving so much of yourself to the role for so long?

I made a decision myself that I wasn't happy with how things were being dealt with in Croke Park and I decided that I needed to step up for myself number one and secondly for other referees that are there and didn't want to speak up. Look I have three All-Irelands done, it wasn't a hard decision in the end to walk away as I felt I wasn't getting a fair crack of the whip in the last couple of years.

If you look at the appointments in the last couple of weeks you will see there has only been one Munster referee out in the last 20 or 21 appointments. Look, I'm only talking about myself and not anybody else, I have only done two matches in the league and I did two matches last year. If I was refereeing in this year's Munster championship I wouldn't have refereed any game for seven weeks!

To me that is too long a gap. You need to be refereeing every second week to be at the top level. Look at the Premier League and the rugby lads, they are all refereeing every second week. I just think they have it the wrong way around in Dublin.
Like if you are doing an All-Ireland final the following year you don't do a match of any significance and that doesn't make any sense to me.

When you put it like that it seems bizarre that a referee would have a two-month gap between matches and be expected to be up with the play with lads training three nights a week, every week for months. When it comes to referees keeping up with the play, is refereeing so few games when players are training so much a recipe for disaster ?

Absolutely. It doesn't make sense. They can come out and say all they like about giving lads a chance, and I'm all for giving lads a chance but you have to be refereeing every second week. Three weeks the very maximum without a game. You can't do a six or seven-week gap between games, it just doesn't work.

It is a tough call to step away as it is a big part of your life. What did you do to be the best you could at it?
Look, it is a big personal decision Stephen. I train hard. I train hard from Christmas to pass a fitness test then I hear during the week that a fella that failed the fitness test will referee a big match!

That was the last straw. That was the one that drove me over the edge. I had trained really hard to get over the line in that test and it is not easy to get ready for that test and to hear that a man has done a match and he didn't even pass the fitness test! It doesn't sit well with other referees either. Listen there is a lot of discontent amongst referees at the moment. They won't all speak out. I did, and I am delighted I did. I have my head held high.

What is the reaction to your decision Fergal?

Well I have hundreds of messages and well over 200 phone calls to say that they are delighted I came out and spoke up. They are saying they are sorry I left too. In general someone had to say something for things to improve and I just think that going forward that it has to change. The way it is going you won't have referees for matches soon, so you won't have matches. I think referees need to be treated way better than they are at the moment. I feel that they are falling way short on how they are being treated and way short on how the appointments are being made. I just think we need an overall change on refereeing and on the GAA. I think that we need to be more tuned in to keep the referees we have on board because they are undervalued. That's my opinion,

You're looking too at criticism of referees from the public Fergal to get to the required standard but is it hard to get to the required standard?

Absolutely. It is easy to stand back and criticise a referee. Look I go to matches and I'm not happy with referees some days so I have been there too. It is probably the most underrated job in the GAA. No one likes a referee, no one talks to a referee. I refereed inter-county matches that were senior challenges and it isn't like they forget about it but they wouldn't even invite you in for a bite to eat after the match. They just forget about you when it is over. That is probably across the board level. The county board, managers and others, the last man they think about is the referee.

It is a structural problem within the GAA and it is not being addressed. Is that right, Fergal?

Absolutely Stephen. Unless the GAA goes down the road of hiring someone that is going to concentrate on referring, and it can't be one man. It has to be two or three or four. I would say there needs to be one in every province to make sure you have enough referees for club matches, schools matches, colleges matches, Harty Cup, minor.
Under 20s, senior...unless you go down that road you won't have referees. I think it is going to come very quickly to that. More quick than they think. It is very close now...
There are three referees after leaving the national panel in the last 12 months from Munster. Nathan Wall, Ronan McGann and myself. That is three lads from Munster gone from the system. They are three lads that refereed senior National League matches so how would you get lads to that level again so soon. It is not easy to get a lad up to that level. it takes five or six years or it could be up to ten in some cases to get to that level. You can't afford to lose them.

It sounds like a brain drain. The brightest and best are leaving and the inexperienced fill the role because the best are gone. Is it a brain drain?

Sure look, that is an opinion. Who is the best and who is not. I'm not saying I'm the best, that wasn't what my issue was. My issue was that I didn't feel I was getting enough games to be the best referee possible for championship matches. You have to have a structure in place where you are refereeing every second week whether you are on the panel or not. I know it is a hard call to bring your refereeing panel down to twelve or ten but you have to be prepared to do that. If you don't this is what happens: You don't have the referees when it comes to championship.

Within Tipperary do you think Murtagh Brennan (CEO Tipperary GAA) should say "we value referees and this is what we are going to do.." in order to make referees feel valued and make changes to keep the ones they have?

Look I don't know Murtagh Brennan I have never met the man and it is not a Tipperary problem it is a national problem. I think they have to invest big money into how they are going to look after them. I feel that referees are at the bottom of the pile as regards anything in the GAA and I know they will say differently but look the proof of the pudding is in the eating of it. If you lose referees continuously, which they have done…there has to be a problem.

Before we finish, have you a highlight from your refereeing?

My highlight will always be the Kilkenny versus Wexford semi-final in 2017 in Wexford Park. It was a Saturday night. Davy Fitzgerald was the manager on the line and it was a serious game. It was played in about 30 degrees heat and that was the best match I ever refereed. The best atmosphere ever in my time refereeing. I always found small venues were better. For example Ennis, Wexford Park and these places. Croke Park is different, it is a big 82,000 venue but Wexford Park that night was the highlight.

Refereeing seems a bit like commentary, you get a bit high and you have to come back down after it then and mentally as well it takes up a lot of time. Is it like that?

Ah yeah it is. The biggest part of refereeing is not the physical part, it is the mental part. How to handle the situation, how to handle the players on the day and all that. That is more important than fitness tests. I think fitness tests are being overrated in Croke Park too. I said that before. I know you have to have a certain level of fitness but certainly the mental side of it is bigger. You have to be mentally strong if you want to referee matches at the highest level. You have to be able to handle that. I have been there for 13 or 14 years and I have enjoyed every minute of it while I was there but unfortunately if you asked me now, with the way things are going, would I recommend refereeing to someone: the answer is no.

Ok. That is a huge statement from someone that has done it all in refereeing. Is that down to the way things are done currently?

Absolutely. I am very disillusioned with the way things are being run. It's very imbalanced as it is. As I said to you, it will stay that way unless we get someone involved full time in all four provinces and all of them get together and they pick the referees together. That is how to do it because It is very imbalanced as it is and it won't work going forward. This problem has happened before and it will happen again and it is not good for refereeing unfortunately as it is.

Final question Fergal, are you going to be doing club matches in Tipperary going forward or not? No, I am retired now from refereeing duties at all levels.